President Obama Inaugurated Today

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Replied by charonh on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

I think what she means (Charonh, you can correct me if I am wrong) is that they if they cannot speak the native language is that they need to learn it in order to obtain citizenship. We shouldn't have to make a citizenship test in every language in the world so they can become citizens. English is the most common (Spanish is probably a close 2nd) language that is here in America. We shouldn't have to bend over backwards to adapt to everybody. From what I have heard is that Austrailia has some pretty strict immigration laws.


Thank you Eldarwen, that is exactly what I meant. Sure you can go to another country without initially knowing their native language, however if you're going to apply for citizenship in a particular country, you should learn their language. Its all about respect. When in Rome, you must do what the Romans do, lol. Smcc, in response to your comment of what would have happened if they never learned the language. Well, their ideas wouldn't be as influential, and they DID take the time to learn the language. Brian23 I totally agree with you, however there's nothing wrong with putting safeguards in place and not everyone comes to this country with ethical beliefs.
10 years 6 months ago #1

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Replied by Brian23 on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Now Brian23, I don't agree that everyone should be allowed to live here if they choose. I think restrictions need to be put in place; there's only so much a country's infrastruture can withstand. I also feel you shouldn't be able to obtain citizenship if you cannot speak the country's language. I've always wondered how individuals could live in a place where you couldn't understand what was going on around you. That would scare me to death, I couldn't imagine living anywhere I couldn't understand the language and I would have to depend on someone else (hopefully its a family member, because people are so dishonest) for everything. People who do, place themselves in a very vulnerable, compromising position and are at a disadvantage. I also disagree with the US, catering to so many different cultures. We are in the US and we speak English


Well, I have to agree with you on (1) thing if you are applying for your citizenship in this country, you should have to do it in the Countries native language (English). And I am sure you will be happy to know, that the N400 (Naturalization and Citizenship) application with the I.N.S. is only in English. They will not let you pass that test until you can verbally conversate in English with the proctor. Now, I can't say the same about the application for a Temporary/Permanent Residency, because that one is in about 30 different languages.

I know when I came to this country (when I was 9 and I'm 25 now), I learned English in a matter of 2 wks (I was forced too being in a public school in New Jersey). But, I can't say it's completely right that the rest of my family that came here too, (mostly the older adults) did not learn the language (and some can still barely speak it now). But, as sad as it may sound, they have never really had to learn the language here, nor do they have to now. We are form Portugal and the majority of people who come from Portugal/Brazil will move to primarily Portuguese neighborhoods (which we all did when we moved to Newark NJ). They don't need to know how to speak the language because 99% of the people that live around them speak Portuguese only (including the local supermarkets, restaurants and gas stations). I am not at all saying its right, but its just the way it is. 4 years ago, I moved to Miami with some friends and cousins, and guess what the primary language is in Miami? Well, depending where you are it's Spanish and Creole. I can stop at a random McDonalds in little havana where the person on the speaker is asking me what I want in Spanish. I am once again, not saying it's right, but that's why they call it "little havana" so if you don't adapt to their native language in the City, than you live elsewhere.

I know that this topic can probably go on forever, but I just want to be clear that I don't agree with people living in America and not being able to speak the native language, but I do agree that everyone should have a fair opportunity to live in whatever country they seek. Because it was immigrants that came to this Country that made it what it is today (and will help make it what the future holds for it). And I don't have anything against any nationality, (whether foreign and domestic) that comes to this Country as hard working, tax paying citizens/residents that live small but honest lives. And if you are one of those people, you should be aloud to speak English, Spanish, Creolo etc and as long as you don't violate the rights of another citizen and shouldn't be told that you are not welcome here.
10 years 6 months ago #2

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Replied by Eldarwen on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

I think what she means (Charonh, you can correct me if I am wrong) is that they if they cannot speak the native language is that they need to learn it in order to obtain citizenship. We shouldn't have to make a citizenship test in every language in the world so they can become citizens. English is the most common (Spanish is probably a close 2nd) language that is here in America. We shouldn't have to bend over backwards to adapt to everybody. From what I have heard is that Austrailia has some pretty strict immigration laws.
10 years 6 months ago #3

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Replied by smcc on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

charonh

Once again I respectfully disagree with the following quote "I also feel you shouldn't be able to obtain citizenship if you cannot speak the country's language"

Should we have left out Einstein from coming here because he could not speak english when he got here? Should Goddard have stayed in Germany and not contribute to the Manhatten Project ? Should the Asians and Europeans who built the Railroads in the 19th century been turned away because of their lack of English ?

How about the Hispanics who work our Agricultural terrain throughout the year because no one else will do the job, should they be turned around and sent home ?

I know you mean by obtaining citizenship you should know the language but what if the aforementioned groups never learned english, where would this country be today ?
10 years 6 months ago #4

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Replied by charonh on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

No prob smcc, I am relatively new to this network. But I do admire the diversity of the people here.

I am a minority (latin decent) and an immigrant to this country as well (no worries completely legal now lol). But I do agree that everyone (black, white, yellow or purple) does have a right to live in this country (provided that the migrate here legally) and I don't personally condone anyone abusing the system that we live in. The system was built to aid the people who were less fortunate or get the shorter end of the stick, but it should not be abused by people who can't go out and get a job like everyone else.

I do really like hearing everyone's opinions here as well, as it helps us all to grow as smarter and wiser human beings.


Now Brian23, I don't agree that everyone should be allowed to live here if they choose. I think restrictions need to be put in place; there's only so much a country's infrastruture can withstand. I also feel you shouldn't be able to obtain citizenship if you cannot speak the country's language. I've always wondered how individuals could live in a place where you couldn't understand what was going on around you. That would scare me to death, I couldn't imagine living anywhere I couldn't understand the language and I would have to depend on someone else (hopefully its a family member, because people are so dishonest) for everything. People who do, place themselves in a very vulnerable, compromising position and are at a disadvantage. I also disagree with the US, catering to so many different cultures. We are in the US and we speak English:upset:. That being said, if you cannot speak it, learn how. I've never been to another country, but I wonder if they're (other countries) as accomodating?
10 years 6 months ago #5

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Replied by Meya on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

:white-flag: :white-flag: :white-flag: :white-flag:
10 years 6 months ago #6

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Replied by charonh on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

I'm sure Meya that a segment of the African American community is happy that a Black Man has risen to the highest political office in the nation. For those that feel this way here is a question, Now that a African American is President do we still need "Affirmitive Action?"

For me the color of his skin is irrelevent. The question is can he get the job done ? The only difference between the start of his administration and FDR's first term is that there were no wars going on during the first part of the Great Depression. We aren't at 25% unemployment like in 1933 but then again unless your 75 or older you, I, or anyone else have never lived through such an ordeal.

Society will watch his first 100 days and see how much he and congress will come together to start to turn this country around. So many people unemployed, nearing the ending of their unemployment insurance, with no job prospects on the horizon are looking to this man to give them hope that better days are ahead.

Let us all put down our differences when it comes to color/race/ethnic background and come together to solve the problems in front of us because if we don't do it together it won't get done !


Smcc, right back at you! That's great for the IT world, but unfortunately not everyone lives in that world and because you're inside that world, you shouldn't discount those who aren't. Again, you're making reference to the exception, not the norm. And yes, I love debates, as long as they're conducted respectfully.
10 years 6 months ago #7

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Replied by Eldarwen on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Afternoon Eldarwen,

Correct me here, but at the end of your blog your stating to help the people who are legally here first but in the first part of your blog you state that we have people here legally (born or otherwise) who are mis-using the system per se.

Your "Berlin Wall" scenario; people would dig under it, over it or through it to get here our borders are too long and it would be too costly and in the end would not prevent the migrationm, i.e., people shipped here in containers in order to be enslaved into whatever portion of the Labor Mkt.


People will always try to find a way in, granted. If you read up on the Berlin Wall you will find that it was an effective deterrent even though a few people did get across. What I would plan to do is that use the people in prisons to build the wall and get all the National Guard people to oversee it. Prison is supposed to be punishment, you shouldn't be sitting in an air conditioned cell getting cable and a lot of other things.

About welfare and the projects, this was created during the Depression that if you lost your job, you would get something until you got back on your feet. It is not supposed to be a life style. It is a great idea that is being abused. Welfare needs to be fixed like social security. The government let welfare become a lifestyle. When my dad was on strike with the company he works for (this is when I was in the 4th grade), he got a temporary job so we wouldn't get welfare and my mom went back to work so we could keep our house. My sister and I got free lunches and a lot of things. But welfare is a last resort and is supposed to be temporary.
10 years 6 months ago #8

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Replied by Brian23 on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Brian23 I don't know you well enough so its not like I leaving you out in the open its just these two ladies always give me the flip side to the coin in question.


No prob smcc, I am relatively new to this network. But I do admire the diversity of the people here.

I am a minority (latin decent) and an immigrant to this country as well (no worries completely legal now lol). But I do agree that everyone (black, white, yellow or purple) does have a right to live in this country (provided that the migrate here legally) and I don't personally condone anyone abusing the system that we live in. The system was built to aid the people who were less fortunate or get the shorter end of the stick, but it should not be abused by people who can't go out and get a job like everyone else.

I do really like hearing everyone's opinions here as well, as it helps us all to grow as smarter and wiser human beings.
10 years 6 months ago #9

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Replied by smcc on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Ditto Meya. Love the debate and love to hear other idea's! Too be honest I like to hear how we all feel about whatever subject is up for discussion. I have and never will judge someone for how they think and who am I to do so anyway ? :cheesing:
10 years 6 months ago #10

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Replied by smcc on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Afternoon Eldarwen,

Correct me here, but at the end of your blog your stating to help the people who are legally here first but in the first part of your blog you state that we have people here legally (born or otherwise) who are mis-using the system per se.

Your "Berlin Wall" scenario; people would dig under it, over it or through it to get here our borders are too long and it would be too costly and in the end would not prevent the migrationm, i.e., people shipped here in containers in order to be enslaved into whatever portion of the Labor Mkt.
10 years 6 months ago #11

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Replied by Meya on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Eldarwen, what you just said is the truth and I have bared witness to it. I remember on the news were they had arrested "Social Workers" who were getting aid under clients whom they had told were sanctioned for at least 6 months or one year. Also, they were giving aid to their illegal families and friends. There are a few quack Dr's I know, who illegally fills out forms, to say that their patient is disabled, prescribed them medication, and their customers deal is to give it to the Dr. Ohhhh yes, that is really going on out here. Oh wait, I had a neighbor, who was illegal, used to receive nearly $1k in food stamps and only had 5 kids. I was like, "How in the world did you get that?" She told me that they gave it to her in exchange that her and hubby would get off at a certain time and go to work. What! I never heard that before.

People of all race has abused that system, but I don't know why the rules can't be stronger or stiffer than what it is. They have a time clock for welfare recipients which is 5 years and you are off, and once you apply, you can not add another child after 10 consecutive months of receiving aid. I don't think that is working because the kids are older than 5 and they are still receiving it. Five years is a lot of time to get up on your feet again. If you can not get a job within five years, then you are not trying to anything at all. What the problem is, people don't want to accept low wages (or minimum wages), they want the big salary jobs, but do not want to do what it takes to get there. Nothing, besides rain or snow, comes flying out of the air for no one.

Smcc, there will always be a debate especially when it comes to something like this. But, I can say that I learn that way. FG has a rule here, that everyone one is entitled to their own opinion as long as it does not harm, disrespect, violate terms, or criticize another. There is always someone who know more than I do, or should I say, have valid facts to my assumptions. How else will I (or we) learn that what I always thought was true, was actually false. The first thing I say is, whew, glad I did not have to say that to someone else because all the time I was wrong. You have said a lot of things in here that I had a wrong understanding with all the time, and that is how I learned. There are plenty of people in here I have learned from, even through telling myself "I now that is not true!" But what happened? I was proved wrong. With a conversation like above, we all may have different opinions, so I back out when I see there is no final agreement, or someone is about to go off soon.
]Before I go any further, this is not a criticism nor racism thought and I will hope there will be no such replies toward it. Let's all follow the rules before we post.[/quote]
10 years 6 months ago #12

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Replied by Eldarwen on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

Has anybody taken a look at Bill Cosby's Poundcake speech commemorating the dismantling the sepereate but equal in schools? Part of the problem is that welfare reform is needed. It's not only some African-Americans abusing it but white people too. We have created a welfare nation. What is really bothering me today is that we have illegal aliens coming in and getting welfare. There are newspapers in every concievable language in America that tells them how to milk the system. We have a person with severe Downs Syndrom that is applying for SSI/SSD and two months later, they deny them but on the other hand we have someone with Aspergers that gets SSI/SSD. That needs to be cleaned up as well. If I had my way, I would build something like the Berlin Wall on the border and put the National Guard there. Let's take care of the people that are here legally first.
10 years 6 months ago #13

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Replied by smcc on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

You know Financeglobe ought to have another venue here aptly named "Think Tank"

charonh, Meya, I might not agree with your position but I do like the debate ! Brian23 I don't know you well enough so its not like I leaving you out in the open its just these two ladies always give me the flip side to the coin in question.

Minorities have always realized that to get ahead the road wasn't going to be smooth. By Obama becoming President,it just further solidifies that what we have seen in the past, i.e. The Tuskegee Airmen, the Sit In's in the 50's, the Bus Boycott's of the Civil Right's era can be had by individuals being ingenous in their approach although the Tuskegee Airmen was an experiment by the Government.

In my world of IT Affirmitive Action is a relic. People in the business want to know is "can you do the work?" Meya, living in the Bay Area and with Silicon Valley being down the road you can see first hand the diversity in IT. The economy has already become Global and for any business to stay the path of the "Good ol boys" mentality will surely go the way of the dinosaur !
10 years 6 months ago #14

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Replied by Meya on topic Re: President Obama Inaugurated Today

(I can't believe I just heard on the news that after getting a 13 billion dollar bail-out, GM is letting go over 2,000 employees),

That bothered me also. It made my head spin! Now it makes me wonder that if they included paying and keeping their employees in the bail-out deal. It's enough they were walking on tippy toes when they knew their job had to be bailed out or else. Now they are getting pink slips AFTER their job received help. What kind of mess is that?:upset:
10 years 6 months ago #15

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